Mastic or thinset???

So you've decided to hire a tile setter to handle your next project because it seemed a bit out of reach to you. With times being harder then they have been you decide to check up on your installer and see their work as each day progresses. Well here's a couple tips to make sure your getting a proper install.

Make sure you installer is using the appropriate setting material, I would say 90% of the time thinset is the required setting material. With tiles being larger and more intricate these days mastic (the bucket glue) doesn't really fit the picture.

If you've decided to redo your bathroom you should never see any buckets of glue on the job unless the installer is using them to mix his mortar (which is fine).

I have attached a few photos of mastic the no no, and thinset (the bagged powder which should be used). Here is the product that should not be used:

If you notice your installer using mastic make them remove the tiles and reset them with the proper mortar. The only time mastic is allowed is on wall area where the tile will not get wet. The hardest part is going to be convincing them to switch to thinset, they will claim they have been doing it this way for 20 years and never had a problem, do not buy into it!!

Mastic is not allowed in showers, on floors, ceilings or outside. You can remove a tile with mastic and soak it in hot water and the dried mastic will turn back into the paste it was like in the bucket this is called re-emulsifying. I just wanted to touch on the topic, good luck with your project I hope this helps answer any questions you may have.

Here is what you want to see on the job:

New shower with old tile

I recently tore out a tub surround for a customer over the past couple days in Delaware County, Pa. The tile was 3x3 over green board installed with mastic and I knew it was in bad shape. The customer had not used the shower for 5 years due to substantial leaking when it was being used. I tore out and while gutting the shower noticed that the tiles had no tiling substrate behind them just air and mold. The worst part was the installer told the homeowner back in the mid 90's they used wonderboard, I had to explain that the job was done with pretty much drywall and glue.

I demo'd the shower and installed a vapor barrier (aquabar "b"),installed permabase, taped and flashed the corners, and most importantly set the tile with thinset.







The customer choose their own tile, it was a bisque 6x6 from American Olean. I got an idea to save some of the old 3x3 and install diamonds in the shower to enhance the installation, the homeowner thought this was a great idea. I tiled the entire shower with laticretes 253 thinset to set the tile. I grouted the shower with laticretes bright white unsanded grout and caulked all the changes of plain.

This job felt great, I ripped out a awful shower and installed a rocksolid one with a little touch of the old shower by inserting the gray accents.

The people were thrilled with the finished project and it made me feel good that they were happy, they also enjoyed watching the whole process take shape.

Hiring the right Tilesetter/Contractor

Below is a good walk through on how to hire a quality tile setter and get a lasting installation

So you've decided the house needs a little upgrade, maybe a new kitchen floor or the linoleum in the powder room has worn out its welcome. Maybe the shower is grungy, the walls are moldy and those 4x4 pink tiles with a gray border need to be shown the door. What do all these things have in common? Well, they can all be replaced with ceramic tile or more commonly used now porcelain. So porcelain it is, or maybe you decided to install marble, but we'll get into that later. You've decided to hire a tile contractor because it seems like a large task and its one project that you want to do once and not again in 2- 5 years, because you know a proper tile installation should last as long as the substrate below it, aka. plywood, concrete, drypack.

Where do you find a tile contractor? Its always a good idea to call a tileshop in the local area and ask who their top installers are and if the shop and its installers follow TCNA guidlines. Nowadays you can research the local tile shops on the Internet and see how clients rate the particular shop by reading just a few reviews. A couple negative feed backs on a local tile shop may change your perspective on how the shop operates and the type of installers being reccomended.


Lets fast forward, a few different installers come out and look at the job and give estimates and their method of installation. To make sure you have a lasting installation its always a good idea to check the following. Make sure the contractor is licensed and insured. An insured contractor will have no problem proving it. Ask how long the contractor has been in business and what their preferred method of install is. Make sure that their install is proper with what the TCNA recommends. Ask if the contractor offers a warranty and when they give their final proposal see if it is in writing or if its based on a handshake.

Just to help here are a few proper installation methods for floors:
Cbu
Drypack
Ditra

These are the only methods I am aware of, if someone try's to sell you something else be weary and ask them if its supported by the tiling council and if its a new proper method ask for some literature on it.

Now if you choose to have a shower redone make sure you don't get the famous mastic on greenboard/cbu job with the famous nails in the pan liner curb area. You'd be surprised how many people offer this type of installation, a lot of the people installing this way may not even be tile setters and may be another trade just trying to make a quick buck. Actually so many people are installing this way that 80% of the currently custom built shower are functioning improperly. Whether is clogged weepholes in the clamping drain or nails in the liner, mastic on the walls, or lack of prepitch.

Ask your installer how they plan on building the shower. A proper shower consists of a vapor barrier whether its 6 mil poly or 15 lb felt behind the tile setting substrate or a liquid applied membrane applied on the face of the setting substrate. The tile must be installed with a premium thinset that comes in a bag and is mixed with water. Anything arriving in a bucket with a lid is bound to affect the outcome of the job. The only time mastic (the bucket substance) should be considered is for wall work in dry areas such as a back splash or wainscoting in a bathroom or other water-free area. In a traditional shower a pan liner must be installed and the curb must be puncture free and made of mud. This is the only way a shower pan can be built and tiled in a tradition shower with these type of materials. Anything else risks a quality installation.

Another newer and growing popular method is the Kerdi shower which consists of drywall and a waterproof membrane applied with unmodified thinset to the drywall. The mudbed for the shower floor is installed without a liner and the membrane is installed over the pitched mud. Corner pieces and a band are installed to make a total water proof system. Water has no where to go except to the drain and out of the shower like it is designed to do. One thing great about this system is the shower can actually function once the Kerdi is applied and drys for a day, the tile technically is just for aesthetics and installed with unmodified thinset.

This is just a touch on quality work and how to find a quality setter, the only thing to do is try not to shop based on price alone, if your mindset is on a cheap price ultimately you will end up with a poorly installed tile job. Just because someones price is higher then another, doesn't mean they are trying to take you. 95% of the time an installers craftsmanship will speak for itself. In the long run, which would you rather do? Spend 2,100 dollars on a shower that lasts 1 year leaks and ruins the family room below it and shorts out your new high def television or pay 4,500 and get a shower that will last a lifetime? Pretty simple answer...